John: You're listening to The Present Professional, where we explore the intersections of personal and professional development. To change your experience of life and work with every episode.

Tony: So tune in, grab your notebook, and let's go. Let's go.

John: Welcome to another episode of the present professional today. We had a topic that came to us in the moment. So Tony has just graduated from a local program here called leadership Houston. And we were talking about how he really jumped into that program under his own volition. And this whole concept of, you know, how we are responsible for our own development came up. So, we thought that this would be a pertinent thing to talk about because, you know, how do you start taking responsibility for your own development? So, Tony, when did you start taking responsibility for your own development?

Tony: Okay, that's an interesting question. I wasn't ready for that one. Now you're taking me down memory lane. Yeah, well, you know, I feel like I probably always have kind of felt that way, been responsible for my own development. I think it might have started in high school to a degree. In high school, I joined an extracurricular program to really just, it really was about developing young men. And it was not a sport. It was not something that I had to do. And I just kind of saw other people doing it and I said, why are they like dressed up? Like, why are they like, why do they look organized? So, you know, I joined that program. It was, and it's called the Gents Program. And got really active in there, became a leader in there and all the things. I think that that kind of took me down a rabbit hole of you can do what you're supposed to do, like go to school, but you can also stack things on top of your journey while you're in it, in school or wherever. and help develop that process or develop that journey. And then I took that same approach to college and I also take it to every job I have. So every job I have or every job I've had, I've always looked at other things that I could be doing while I'm in any role. And I think maybe I get bored fast too. So maybe that's it and I like to have a complicated life while I'm in spaces.

John: It sounds like that your curiosity brought you to it. Just seeing what other people were doing and thinking about what was possible for you and just being curious about all these different programs and That's one thing that I noticed about you as well is just your like lust for learning just to learn from Different spaces at you know different times different people is something that you know that I've noticed about you one one thing that's I feel that it started for me was You know You're right. There was certain things in in high school. There was but it was mostly things that that more happened that I just said yes to, you know, like, yes, there was, I mean, for me, it was simple, you know, sports and good grades. And then just one thing randomly, you know, friends, friends said like, Hey, you should, you should try out for the musical and like, do this with us. It was my senior year. And I was like, Okay. Sure. And I said yes to it. And then I was Captain Hook in our production of Peter Pan, like three solos on stage. And it was like one of the best experiences of my life. I learned a lot. It was extra on top of what I thought was my baseline of what I wanted to do. And I feel like that was really the catalyst of Me just saying yes to things is what happened with you know, and then Through then through college. It was more, you know saying yes to different career options and things like that and then into the professional world the one thing that really comes to mind is saying yes to my love for yoga and just taking one class and diving into 500 hours of training and being a teacher. So it's like one of those things that something that feels right for me and I get curious about and I want to go all the way. Right. So it's just, yeah, there's something about this, you know, the growth mindset that's coming up for me here. Like, just like throw yourself in, like, I don't think you have a problem just throwing yourself into things and seeing what happens either. That's so funny.

Tony: Part of the time that we spent together in the program Leadership Houston, it's not a part of the program, but it came up a few times, was imposter syndrome. And so a few people recognized that they had that, either coming in or even at the moment of the end of the retreat. And, you know, it was interesting. I didn't say anything, but I never had imposter syndrome, you know, even from the beginning, being one of the younger people in the program, probably one of the least experienced in terms of career and business and things of that nature. But, you know, I don't know. I don't know, man. I just feel like, you know, the growth mindset has taught me that you should be in spaces where you feel uncomfortable. You should be striving and reaching upwards. Like I love boxing. So I always say, you should be punching above your weight class. Like, you shouldn't just stay where you are comfortable. Meaning, like, if you are a middleweight, you may want to go up to welterweight, which is the one right above that. Put on some pounds, you know, and try it and see. Because if you just stay where you are, then you will be comfortable. And then when you're asked to do something else, it may lead to imposter syndrome. So, you know, I thought that was interesting. And, you know, Yeah, I think you're right. I'm never really too afraid. I think that also comes from what you just talked about, about being on stage. So in my program in high school that I was in, I got thrown into being on a step team. And so I was like, I never stepped before. It was just kind of like, wait a minute, what, you know, how did I end up here? That was concerning, because I was like, I've never done this. I did play sports, but I'd never, you know, been on stage, you know, like, entertaining people. Yeah, and I looked at it now and I say that was a part of the journey of self-development is like the fear of people seeing you on stage. I think that just kind of is shocked that and it's destroyed the fear. And now I do a ton of speaking and you wonder where it came from, where it started. You know, it's always a Genesis story somewhere.

John: So something about making yourself visible and being comfortable with the uncomfortable is if we're speaking to listeners that are thinking, you know, well, maybe they're feeling some imposter syndrome or, you know, just really comfortable where they're at. And, you know, why should I? You know start throwing myself into these places. Why should I make myself uncomfortable and You know, it's I feel The places I was most uncomfortable have been some of the best experiences in my life like the most transformative experiences of my life where I you know it takes high high pressure and heat to to make a diamond right and I feel like like that target keeps moving for me and it's it's not even it's not even a target anymore really like the the putting myself in new spaces and You know new opportunities and some discomfort is more like part of the journey now like I'm not Seeking to be at some end Because of these things it's like my my life and the journey involves different parts and different steps of being uncomfortable and then being comfortable and then what's next. It's just one of my core values is following my curiosity or it's just curiosity in general. I think that's something that that helps guide that.

Tony: Yeah, I think that curiosity is a theme that keeps coming up and I think that as well as, you know, just kind of just jumping out there and getting started is a cure for imposter syndrome. So if you are listening and you do have imposter syndrome in different places, I mean, it's normal. I'm not going to say I've never had it, but I will say that today I have it a lot less. And I think it's because I show up being me. I don't show up to spaces and try to be something that I'm not. There were many times in the program I was in that I didn't say anything because there was nothing I could contribute. Or I did have some things to say, but other people had better ideas. So I was listening. And I think that if I put on this front that I am more than what I am, or that I have more to say, or I have something to say every time, all the time, and, you know, energy is real. I would probably pick up on the signs that people are subconsciously calling me on my BS and then I would have imposter syndrome. I just show up authentic to everything I do. My name is Tony. I'm from Houston. I got two children. I've been married for eight years. I'm a doctoral student. I can run down my life to you. quickly without thinking about who I am because this is just what my life is. And so if that is, you know, if it makes someone else uncomfortable, then maybe they might have imposter syndrome because I'm comfortable who I am. But I don't think it's I think it's more about. living your truth every day. And sometimes it's even writing, you know, writing out who you are in today and maybe who you want to be one day and then just living a life toward marching towards that. But when you look to the left and to the right and you try to compare your life to other people, it will lead to imposter syndrome because you're You're not really focused on who you are and who you're developing into. And you can't be somebody else. You can't do their life. You can't live their life. You know, I knew about this program, for example, for honestly about eight years. But I said eight years ago, I'm not ready for that. I knew that eight years ago. I'm not ready for that program. I'm not ready. I'm gonna wait until the right time comes. And then it came. And it wasn't because I raised my hand. I was tapped, but I wasn't tapped by the people that were going to pay for it. I was tapped by people in the community that said, yeah, yeah, it's time. And then, you know, I raised my hand to make it happen. And so I think that just goes back to the growth mindset and really just being fearless.

John: Man, you said something really, like really powerful. I want to just call out specifically is the cure to imposter syndrome is authenticity. Mm-hmm. I mean literally not being an imposter. I It's like as soon as we try to be someone that we're not and participate at the table in a way that's just not authentic with who we are, then those feelings, those feelings come up. So when those feelings keep continuously coming up, it's like notice when you're feeling like uncomfortable, when you're feeling like you should say something, When you're feeling like, you know, I can't ask this question because I'll look a certain way that doesn't belong here. It's like this, you're feeding the imposter right now. So it's like, can you start stepping into like, who do I want to be in this situation? Thank you for letting myself be enough and Now I'm thinking, you know winded For me that journey's been long like letting myself be enough. So I'm a strong Enneagram type 3 and you know the the imposter is You know at the core of it. The imposter is the type 3s claim to fame like being able to So with the type threes like core drive is to be able to emulate what other people believe success looks like. Because you believe that achieving and being successful actually helps people be connected to you and get love. So the core of it is actually being being loved. But then like that association with me was, you know, being loved and connected because of the things that I do and the things that I accomplish. And that was so deeply rooted. And it probably wasn't until. my you know mid to maybe late 20s really that you know, I started really thinking about you know, what do I want, you know, who's the authentic me that will be satisfied as opposed to, you know, becoming what other people think is successful. And I started defining success for myself. So, I wouldn't say that I had imposter syndrome and didn't feel like I belonged, but the imposter was almost like a skill for me in the background. And I think it drove me to achieve a lot, but at the same time, maybe it was less authentic. So it's like now, in the career that I'm in now, it's like my achievements are authentically aligned with who I am and who I want to be. But I feel like for you, man, I think you're a type one, but we haven't. I don't think we've had you take the test yet, but I feel like you've been really grounded in your truth and who you are. I really respect that about you.

Tony: Yeah, we'll need to do that. We'll have to take the test soon and figure that out. I know for me, definitely my strengths show up, I guess, pretty grounded. I think two of my top five, my number three is discipline. And the more people I meet and do strengths with, the less I find that strength. The less I see it show up in people's top five is so funny. And then my fourth strength is self-assurance, which is another one that's kind of a rare, rarer strength in your top five. And it wasn't always in my top five. It was actually in my teens. So it moved up after life changed for me a bit. So I think having the discipline and the self-assurance, that combo does keep me grounded. And what I was going to say is a lot of it, even in deciding what you want to do in your career or in your leadership or career development journey, A lot of it is just knowing what you want and don't want. And that doesn't mean that you never do it when you say you don't want it at the time. It's really just finishing the mission. Being selective with what's realistic and what you can do in the moment or time that you're doing things. For me, I look at it a lot of times like, you know, going to a restaurant or even a fast food place and just going there and knowing exactly what you want, like going there and saying, yeah, I want to number this and number that with this and this off, take this off with this on and a large whatever. Right. And just being that exact versus going there and saying, um, I don't know. I don't I don't know. I need some more time to think, which I've been both. I'm not going to say I go to restaurants every time I order exactly what I want. But I am saying that when you show up in life like that sometimes, it just makes everything sometimes a little bit more fluid and you have more clarity when someone asks you a question and you can answer it quickly because you're living your truth versus like, you know, I don't know. And then I think to defeat, I know the topic isn't about imposter syndrome, but here we are, to defeat it even further, you also want to be honest about what you don't know. And a lot of times I think that's scary to admit when we don't know things. You know, it's like you don't want to look stupid or look inferior or look like you don't belong. Man, I'm quick to find the guru or the expert and say, can you tell me more like how did you how did you get here what did you do what didn't you do what should i do like to know the road ahead ask those coming back well my favorite quotes are um chinese proverbs wow to know the road ahead ask those coming back wow i love that you haven't shared that one with me before

John: You know how I love how it turned to this defeating defeating the imposter and you know, you talked about one thing about being an advocate for yourself, like, you know, knowing what you want and what you don't want. And it's interesting because, you know, knowing what you want and what you don't want comes from Figuring that out Like you have to put yourself in places to understand that I don't want this or I want more like this So I'd say that you know that the first step is like just doing the doing the damn thing You know try try something new follow your curiosity and then you'll understand. Nope. I not for me, or yes, I want more things like this. And then you're able to be more specific about what you want in regards to specifically your career development and what you want to request of your organization, of your boss, of your community, of your school. Understanding that and being prescriptive about where you see yourself and why can really help you advocate for the right programs, the right roles. You know, what departments are you interested in? What roles are you interested in and why? Like what specifically about that? And maybe you don't have the answers, but you can advocate for the curiosity. Hey, I'm curious about moving to a sales role and what that organization is doing. I'm curious about operations. I'm curious about HR and working with people in the organization. How about I spend some time shadowing some people from there and just getting to know the lay of the land? for my development plan. Right, that is still advocating for your career development. It's advocating for the exploration piece of your career development. Because you have to understand whether that's something that you want to try on or not. And what I see a lot of people doing is just letting the wind take them. You know, letting the manager think about, oh, well this would be a good next step for you. Let's try that on. And that's okay to try that on too. and trust some of those trusted voices. But as you continue to say yes and say no to things, it's, you know, start refining your path and choosing where you want to go, being an advocate for your career and your development.

Tony: Recently, I did a strength session with a group of people and we were talking about the strength harmony. And it's like, you know, people who have that strength, they like places they work and the teams they're around and even their families just have harmony. Everybody just be in a harmonious state in whatever it takes to achieve it. That doesn't mean that they believe that everything is always harmonious, but that's what they desire is a harmony state. And when I was hearing someone described as someone who has harmony in their top five strengths, I realized that I don't care too much for that. I'm a disruptor. I'm okay if we break it all up. I'm okay if there's confusion and conflict temporarily because that's how you grow. That's how you expand, whether that's an organization, whether it's in a team, whether it's in your own mind, whether it's in a relationship sometimes where you got to like, okay, do we really want to elevate? Do we really want to win? How far do we really want to go? I remember before my wife and I had a family, We were just kind of, what one of my former CEOs said, we were a dink, dual income, no kids, and we were just kind of doing life. And she was like, I want a family. And then we had a really tough conversation about, okay, if we want to have a family, we have to change how we do a lot of things because we're not, our environment is not conducive to breed a family. And it was, I won't call that a chaotic conversation, but we had to change a lot of the things that we did and a lot of the ways that we went about our relationship in life. And then what happened after we did that is here we are, as you can possibly even right now hear my three-year-old in the background and almost six-month-old daughter that is asleep, thankfully. So I just say all that to say that sometimes, even in your career development path, it has to get a little messy. It has to get a little dirty. It has to get a little crazy. It has to get a little questionable. If you really want to expand to the next level, if you are comfortable where you are, that's one thing. And that's fine. I know people that have worked for organizations for 30, 40 years, really. And that doesn't mean that they didn't have challenges and growth even within the organization. But I'm saying, depending on what you want, you might have to break up with your former self and shed those crocodile tears and look in the mirror and say, I don't know who I am right now. Yeah, that's part of the journey.

John: That's part of the journey. And, you know, sometimes, you know, people find what they want to say yes to. So if you're at a point in your career and you found the place that you want to say yes to, good for you. That's fantastic. And when you're at that point in your career, even if you want to stay in the same role, the same place forever and you love what you do, amazing. And then, you know, things will start expanding on your personal side. You know, maybe things will change within relationships or your family or even your interests and hobbies will expand to, you know, what you, where you want to spend your personal time. It's like, even if you feel like you've figured everything out on one front, Like there will be expansion in other areas of your life as well. So, you know, development and like that word of really, you know, learning something new and stepping into new grounds doesn't necessarily always have to be on the career side. Maybe you're expanding in a more creative or artistic way. Maybe you're expanding your love for more family. There's so many options for what's next for you. But the first thing that you have to do is just say yes to you. Say yes to yourself and know that you'll be able to handle any situation that you step into and you'll learn from it. Like we at the present professional believe in your innate capabilities to be uniquely you Your authentic self is what the world needs so Bring it.

Tony: Well said I feel like that was a great way to close You know, I don't want to interrupt that amazing speech there, but I will I will add that I I definitely believe in stability and sustainability. So if you're a person that also believes in that, in that your career should match that, then there's nothing wrong with that. I know for my parents, like my dad specifically, I think he's been with his company, you know, maybe 50 years. You know, I don't know how long. It's been a long time. We can stop counting. So I can't, I'm not going to say that there's a problem with that in today's society because I come from that. But what I will say, if you are desiring more for your career, then it may take more uncomfortableness to get to where you want to get to. If you're desiring more out of a relationship, every relationship, every good relationship has a good amount of growth in it. Even if it's just growing and saying, hey, you know, I want to, we want to travel more. or, hey, we want to get our physical fitness together, or, hey, we want to expand a family, or whatever it is that you really want to do is going to take some disruption to get there. The program that I just ended was a 10-month program. I had to sacrifice the first Friday of every month for 10 months from really 7.30 a.m. to maybe 6.30 p.m. And that's on top of my schedule that currently exists. Disruption. Disruption. And then in the end, was it worth it? Absolutely. But that's how everything goes. On top of that, I'm in school, which takes up a lot of, a big chunk, not my whole Saturday, but a big chunk of my Saturday. Is it gonna be worth it? Hope so. I'm not at the end yet, but hope so. everything requires sacrifice. So I just want to point that out and say that I hope that if you are listening that you see opportunity in your schedule and seek to find a way to fill it with something that could change either your perspective or actually potentially change your life. Because we all have the same 24 hours. And if you choose to take some of yours and invest it in something else that's going to help you down the road, I promise you, you will get to where you really want to get to. But it is going to be uncomfortable.

John: Lean into it. Well, thank you. Thank you all for listening, for being a part of the present professional community. It means a lot to see you sharing and commenting and leaving your reviews for the podcast. So again, we really appreciate that. So if you're here listening for the first time, please drop us, rate us, or review wherever you're listening to your podcast right now. And if you want to work with us or you want to introduce us to your organization, You can reach out to us at the present professional podcast.com. There'll be our contacts in the show notes. So don't ever hesitate to reach out if you want to learn more or find out other ways that you'd like to work with us. So thank you guys so much and we'll see you next time.