John: You're listening to The Present Professional, where we explore the intersections of personal and professional development. To change your experience of life and work with every episode.

Tony: So tune in, grab your notebook, and let's go. Let's go.

John: Welcome to another episode of the present professional. Today, we're here to talk about something that is very pertinent to our time of distraction, and we're going to unpack Cal Newport's deep work. So a book about strategies to overcome the hyper distracted time that we live in today. And, you know, they really kick off the book with presenting different statistics that show, you know, just how we're spending our time. And one that really stood out to me, just to throw something at you right away, is that the average worker uses 60% of the work week using online communication and surfing the internet. things that make us feel busy. And that's something to pay attention to is that word feel. And the things that make us feel busy aren't necessarily the things that are going to move our lives, our professional lives, personal lives, and our world forward. So I'm super excited to get into this. It really connects with a lot of the things I work with clients on and things that I work on in my own life. And Tony, let's hear your take.

Tony: Man, I mean, first even came across this book and looked at the cover when you see the little lamp. kind of on the cover or at least my cover has a little lamp on it. And it's like making me think about someone working deep into the night or early in the morning. And I think about the times where I do and have done my best deep work. And it has been when there is that little lamp on and there's no distractions, because that really just embodies what deep work means to me. You know, I think we are kind of entering into a space where this conversation is going to be recurring and coming up so much in, you know, our communication to the next generation to tell them, hey, you know, there once was a world where you didn't have the phone, you know, there once was a world where you did not have to be putting up these safeguards rather to keep yourself focused on task. And I think what you just pointed out about 60% of the work week using online communication, surfing the internet, making you feel busy, that number is either going to go up or I think it already has gone up. I think it's much more than 60 percent. When my dad's using TikTok, there's a problem. So, you know, and he's super disciplined himself. So anyway, that's my initial take, man. And I think we are going to definitely unpack something that is a prominent hot topic conversation in today's workplace and just our lives, period.

John: Right. You know, I love getting into some of the neuroscience of it, and I love that they presented that for me as well. And just to keep it really simple, this has come up in other episodes as well, but we are evolutionarily wired to be distracted. And we were supposed to pick up on small things, small notifications of something coming up over the horizon, some brush rustling on the savanna. Like we were supposed to notice these things for protection of our lives, our families and our tribes. So that's really like the root of how distraction takes us away from anything that we're focused on. So it's super imperative to bring some of these strategies into our lives now that there's this our attention has become commoditized. Our attention is a value. You know, the more attention that you can grab, the more advertising money that you can make. It's just a straight fact of like a capitalist market. But now there's a capitalist market for our attention. So here are some strategies that we're going to go through to fight back. So, A couple strategies that they come up with in the book. So there's four different deep work strategies that Cal Newport presents here. And I'll just quickly go through all four and then we'll talk a little bit more about my favorite one and some things that I've seen work for clients as well. So quickly, there's the monastic approach. So that's eliminating all distractions at all times. So, making your environment like a monk's environment. You're the way that you're moving through your life like a monk. Then there's the bimodal approach. So defining a period of seclusion for work. So not applying the monastic approach for the entire time, but there's a defined period of seclusion for you to find your deep work. Then The rhythmic approach. So blocks of deep work throughout your day, using the calendar to track those as you move through at least 30 minutes and moving through maybe 45, maybe 90, whatever works for you. Next, journalistic approach. So this is any unexpected time randomly throughout your day, using that to do deep work. Now, all of these are methodical and intentional. They are not random, so it's about choosing something that works for you to experiment with, test it out, and see which one that you want to take on. Maybe there's some combination of them depending on the project that you're working on. But this is something to explore within your own life and work and see what really works for you. Now, Tony, which approach works best for you?

Tony: Man, it really just depends on what I'm doing and what the goal is and how intense the thing may be. I've had to experience some really intense work. So there's been times where I've had to really, really focus. So I have been monistic a few times. And I think that, you know, I try to be light and sometimes have the journalistic approach in too. But I guess, I don't know, John, I think I actually use all four often. Like this morning, I probably was eliminating all distractions, really locked in and focused. And really, that is, again, like I mentioned in the beginning, when I look at the book cover, the time where you get up or you're up late where no one else is up or around, that is just a quick, dirty, easy way to be extremely focused and eliminate distractions. And if you turn your phone off on top of that, Only imagine how focused you can be. So I think that on my regular, I probably say rhythmic on a regular basis. I'm always thinking in quarters. I'm always thinking in 30-minute blocks. So I'll actually, if I'm like working on something, I'll block it in 30-minute increments or 30-minute intervals. So I may say, let me work on this for 30 minutes. Or I can see something that's going to take longer and I'll say, I'm going to give myself an hour. And if I finish in 45 minutes, I don't roll into the next task. I use the extra 15 minutes I gain to just be a regular 2023 human, right? So I may scroll on my phone. I may, like, watch some TV. I may just do nothing. Like, I don't like trying to fill that space with more work.

John: I think that's important too, is, you know, giving yourself some grace and, you know, being realistic with your approach. So taking that time to do, you know, what feels right in the moment, like allowing yourself that freedom, like almost comes as a reward for, you know, sitting down to do your deep work.

Tony: A hundred percent. I mean, when you think about the way we were raised, right, the way we were Brought up you were raised where you do good. You get candy. You're a good kid. You get more Christmas gifts I don't know like we all grew up different, right? But I mean that we are still kids in the sense of like you are now just an adult Version of your child or your kid so we have to reward ourselves and we kind of have to be healthy about how we reward ourselves so for me like I would just mention if I finish a work task or a project early than I'm working on in like that rhythmic 60 minutes, 30 minutes, 90 minute approach, give yourself some freaking credit for finishing early. Give yourself what your brain is craving. Like we naturally scroll on social media a lot, right? That's just where we are, at least me. Well, if I'm craving it, but I've done my work, How about I do my work, finish my work, get it done early, and then mindlessly scroll, right? And laugh at videos or watch sports highlights or whatever. That's just my approach, man. I think that helps for people that are deep workers. Because we can literally, if we're not careful, spend six hours in a row working deeply with no break because you don't feel that you deserve a reward. Because that 60 minutes that I might have spent working on something doesn't mean I'm done working or I'm done with that project. It just means that I might have spent 60 minutes, you know, trying to eat the elephant. The elephant takes much more than 60 minutes to eat, but I might have just did 60 minutes and that's all I got, but be happy with that and be okay.

John: Yep. That's something that I fall into quite a lot. And I would say, for me, the rhythmic approach can turn into the bimodal approach sometimes. Sometimes I'll have that defined, like you mentioned, 60-minute block to work on a specific project. And then I pick my head up and it's three or four hours later. So, you know, while that's not a period of defined seclusion, it becomes a period of intense focus. And sometimes that just happens. And sometimes I don't want to break that concentration. So I dig in. But then afterwards, I have to take care of myself. Remember, drink water, got to dig out, get a meal, get a snack. Like you just had your head down for three hours. All right, time to get up, walk around, get a drink. And that's another thing, like you got to move your body. You got to step outside. You know, there's some times when I'm reflecting on a day and thinking, wow, I have been sitting at my desk in meetings and in deep work for the last six hours. I haven't stepped outside once. Like, okay. Let me look back without judgment, make some changes moving forward, right? Because that's something that I find is really critical for me to get up, move, stretch, throw in a workout, step outside for a moment, play with the dog. There's always something that I can do to break up. those long periods of intense work. But the approach that I have structured into my day, into my weeks, is the rhythmic approach. Jordan makes fun of me because she'll say like, oh, when did you schedule me in this morning? And sometimes I will literally schedule in, like see Jordan off to work. I time block so many things in my day that it's things that I want to be intentional about. You know, it's when I want to devote some time to the project, when I want to devote time to Jordan, when I want to devote time to myself. So I do schedule all of the blocks throughout my day. And then at the end of the week, I can look back and see how did I spend my time? What were the things that influenced having a productive day? When were there a lot of gaps and why? It gives me more of a reflective tool to go back. But then also I sprinkle in the journalistic approach. Sometimes I'll just get an itch at, you know, sometimes it's randomly or I can't go back to sleep at three 34 in the morning and I'll come down and write for an hour and a half and then be dead tired again. Okay. Go back to sleep. But it was that unexpected time to do deep work. So sometimes that does make its way in as well. And I think, you know, they say journalistic, but I would say, you know, creatives as well. Like when you get that inspiration for something, when you get a thought, like take the time and write it down, go for it. Start creating when you have the inspiration because it can be fleeting. Now that's another book that we can unpack sometime soon. It's called Big Magic and it talks about how inspiration comes and goes. But I digress back to the topic at hand. That's when the journalistic approach comes in for me. Like when inspiration is there and it feels fleeting, like I gotta grasp that moment. and sit down to work. So that's where I'm at, and I've seen a lot of folks have success with the rhythmic approach as well. I have a client actually, we just finished the engagement recently, and he started doing this work with a analog timer, who would do 45 minutes of deep work, 15 minutes of stepping back for a snack to walk to move to do whatever you got to do and Another 15 minutes to answer emails plan for the next 45 minutes if he needs to shift things around and then it gets right back in 45 minutes of deep work and And that's its rhythmic cycle throughout the day. And he's experienced so much success and so many other cascading impacts throughout his professional and personal life that it was just beautiful to see. But the next step, it's about defining the space and environment when you're going to do the deep work. So it's, you know, how are you removing distraction? So it's like the setting up the period and the approach that works for you, testing that. Now it's about actually refining the period of deep work, because that's where the quality of that period is going to directly reflect the quality of your work. Right. So how do you set yourself up for your deep work periods, Tony?

Tony: Well, you know, first I'd say that even before I define the space, I think that one thing that's changed in my approach or changed in me is that, you know, I have a two-year-old. So having a small child, a toddler, a mini you, changes how you use your time. So my deep work has to be even more intentional which really just like makes me more monastic whenever it comes to my actual utilization of my deep work because What'll happen is if I'm not really deep work focused, when I want to finally focus in, like let's say I'm extremely distracted, but I still want to be focused, I still have work to do, or I still have things I want to read or get done, my two-year-old is not having it, all right? You can throw all your deep work strategies out the window because there's no, it's not happening. Now, I can distract him and then get some work done, but, you know, then that only lasts for so long. So, you know, I just want to level set with saying that you talked about scheduling time with your family. I say, like, I'm at a place now where I have to schedule time for, like, I'll give a clear example. People do this all throughout the world and friends and stuff. You don't do this, John. But I have friends that send me, like, Instagram reels all day. And I don't really have time to watch the real, like, if it's two minutes of jokes, I have to schedule, it sounds crazy, I'm sorry if you're listening to this and you are a friend that does this to me, I'm just being honest. And I still love you, and you can still send me the videos. But I have to schedule time to watch that. Because if I'm in deep work, and you send me like four videos, Now, I think that some people, like Krystal, my wife for example, she sends me stuff that actually is like, it's funny and it's like the right kind of funny for me to continue what I'm doing. Some people send me stuff that completely veers to a whole different stratosphere of thought and focus that I just can't even, like that takes time to, that 15 minutes I talked about, if I finish stuff early, that's when I have time for that. And some people probably listen to this and they're like, wait, what? How do you not have time for that? But the thing is, when you're in this deep work focus mentality, for me, I call it my Kobe zone. That's Kobe Bryant for y'all who don't know. If I'm in my Kobe zone, think about a person like Kobe Bryant, he wasn't laughing at stuff all day, right? So for me, I have to really find that time. But to answer your question, my environment really, is an environment that is… I know exactly where everything is. I'll just say that. And I've been that way for a long time. I remember in college, my college roommates would use my hair clippers, and I come into the room in my bathroom, and I'm like, I know someone was in here. I know one of y'all used this, because it's not even in the exact space that it used to be in. It's not the exact space that I keep it in, right? So it's like a funny joke, but now that I look back and I look at myself today, all of my things in my environment are exactly where I keep them, exactly in certain spaces like that, because it helps me with my deep work. It helps me stay focused. It helps me stay locked in when it is time for me to really, really, really concentrate. It's something about knowing where everything is in order for me and structure for me. And I said it before, I think I'm a huge environmentalist, I guess, and not in the sense of sustainability and that kind of environmentalist, but I got like a humidifier blowing right now while we're talking. I'm just weird like that, like that's just where I'm at now, right? But all of that keeps me extremely locked in and focused. So, you know, in the book, Deep Work, J.K. Rowling, the author of Harry Potter, she had to stay at a five-star hotel when she was writing the Finish the Last Harry Potter book. just because of her home environment was way too hectic, right? And I can relate to that. You know, I don't want my wife thinking I would go, you know, stay at a five-star hotel. I don't think she would let me do that. But I try to keep my little area five-star so that I can just stay focused and locked in and that it helps me really, like, be in the zone. Because if my stuff is, and Crystal will tell you, if my stuff is all over the place, or if the environment is all over the place, I can't focus. No deep work is happening. If anything, I'm going to be behind now, because now I'm going to spend like three hours deep work in the space to get it clean, to get it right. So some people can thrive and operate in that space, but me, I couldn't even provide you productive work, it would be hot mess.

John: I couldn't agree more, man. And it's so funny that you brought that up exactly the same way, like very observant with where I've put my stuff. And it's so funny you brought up that story. One time in college as well, I went home for the weekend. And so I had on the little shelf by my bed in the dorm room, I had my my protein powder, my creatine, my pre-workout, like all, you know, we're all obsessed with with all that that gym, you know, supplementation and everything. And I had these creatine pills in this jar. And I, whenever I came back from that weekend, back in my hometown, I walked into my room and I noticed immediately that not just one of the jugs was moved. It wasn't actually moved, but the way that the label was facing was rotated another way. And then immediately I looked and I'm like, oh, this is interesting. I was like, I bet he has some of these. They were right on in my roommate's jar on the other side. Like he took a few of them. I'm like, bro, you could just, you could just ask me, like, they didn't care. But, you know, and then he's like, really? Like you would notice that, like, you know, OCD. I'm like, well, I mean, my environment means a lot to me. So I know where all my stuff is.

Tony: It might be a character trait, man. It might be a trait of just people who are like that, but others can relate to. That's hilarious. It's crazy.

John: Yes, I am. In that same way, even just talking about this makes me want to clean off my desk right now. I just want nothing but a keyboard and a screen. And I'm looking around right now. There's like all their recording equipment. There's You know, a picture frame, a coffee mug and other cups, a pair of shorts.

Tony: I'm like, what's going on here? You've been in deep work, man. That's all.

John: Right. So, I mean, I think there's there's something about we talked about our physical space here, but then it comes down to the technology. Right. So being intentional and deliberate about defining those boundaries, like what role is technology going to play in your life? What role do you want it to play in your professional life? Do you want it to serve as a distraction or do you want your technology to be used as a tool when you need it in the right time intentionally? I think that is the most critical thing that we can get to. When I'm even just working from home in my downstairs office, if I leave my phone upstairs, I am, it's probably some kind of hard statistic, 30, 40% more productive. Even if my phone's face down and it's in my view, it's like my brain knows that there's a potential reward underneath that phone. If I go ahead and flip that screen over and see a notification, it's like, oh, people want to talk to me. There's another meme. There's a video like, oh, great. It makes you feel connected. It makes you feel good. And, you know, even just knowing that that's there and a possibility is enough to throw me out of deep work. So when I'm locking in for those periods, I at the very least put my phone out of sight. Like, where I cannot even see where it is. And, you know, better is leaving it completely out of the room for me.

Tony: Man, you know me. I can talk about this all day long. The phone, technology, social media, all the above. You know, someone, like a year ago, they had tweeted, someone I knew, she was asking, would you recommend an Apple Watch? Just generally asking to the public. I immediately responded, right? I have one on right now, by the way, so I'm not My answer is going to be interesting, but I want you to understand I do wear Apple Watches sometimes. My answer was like, no. I was like, Apple Watches and all that kind of technology is fine, but you really do have to keep it in moderation because the level of distraction of an Apple Watch is intense. I'm sitting here right now and I've been talking since we've been recording. And I've gotten alerts that have shook my wrist, but I haven't looked at anything because I'm aware that I've got a notification. But sometimes notifications are not anything pertaining to what you're actually doing. It's not even an emergency or an alert that you really need. Now, of course, you can control what you allow to notify you and things like that. But, you know, like I know people that are They use the competition of the athletic piece to keep up with others and compete, you know, the move and all that kind of stuff. I respect all of it for 100%. But my thought on that is like, how much more distraction do you need? You got your phone, you got other just, you know, iPad, television, computers, laptops. The watch takes it to another level. So if you already aren't really that disciplined, then the watch is going to help you with certain parts of your discipline, but it's definitely going to distract you. I brought that up because for me, when I think about the answer to your original question about how I want technology to be a part of my life and my daily life and even my work, man, It really has to be monitored and controlled. I think I've done a good job of that to this point. I remember one point in my life, I think during COVID, I took my iPhone and I recalibrated all of it, like all of my notifications. I have all of my apps on one screen. I do have like maybe four folders because I got way too many apps. But if you swipe to the right of my home screen, it's no other screen. It's like everything is right there. Simplified, minimalistic as much as possible. My notifications, I control my notifications. So when I get a notification, it is specific to something that matters, right? It's not like so-and-so posted on Instagram, you know, just a random thing that just is another distraction. It's controlled. And I think that to some, I probably sound like way left, right, with what I'm talking about. But to others, this is serious. Like John said, the vibe for your attention in this capitalistic society is real. So if you don't have control of your phone and what you allow to pop up and distract you, you already lost. So you really, really should pay attention to what notifications your phone is sending you. Because I personally just feel that, even with text messages, I feel that everybody in the world you that should not have direct access to you that requires you to respond right now. That is like super non-normal. Abnormal. That's not even like… In what world do you live in where anybody in the world can ping you for a response right now? Like if somebody texts me and I'm doing deep work, I will respond to you when I can. It's not of a level of importance. It's not that I feel that you aren't important. It's just… Wow, can I have my time for me to do what I need to do in my life for the people that I love? You know, like me answering a question. Most of the time, I'm a quick responder, by the way. But I'm just saying, if I'm doing deep work, it's tough, man, because you might feel the FOMO or the feeling that you need to stop what you're doing to answer this question or answer this email. But the only thing you own in your life is your ability to make decisions and your time. So use it wisely and don't let your phone become your master because it already has most of us. Like you said, 60% of people in the work week use online communication and surfing the internet. That's a real stat and it's growing higher. So I really would suggest take control on your screen Take your phone and make it your sidekick, not your master.

John: Wow. Yeah, that's, I mean, because all of these, you know, free apps and, you know, these social networks and I mean, anything that's free, you are the product. Right? So again, control its contact with you so that you can control your attention and where you direct your energy. It's absolutely critical. And you know, when I think about everything that we talked about here, you know, it feels like I'm feeling like a social media detox coming. Maybe like a straight month, like maybe then like if people see that I haven't. I haven't viewed the real or meme in a month. Maybe they'll stop sending so much.

Tony: Oh, you get it too. Okay. It's not just me.

John: So much, man. All the time. Especially if you're in like an Instagram group. Oh my gosh. Forget about it. The groups, it's all no one even communicates. It's just memes and videos.

Tony: And they're funny. That's the thing. I'm not saying it's not funny. It's hilarious.

John: But I don't know. I know. So I'm feeling that coming up. I mean, so if there's, and there's one thing that I want to touch on here before we sign off as well. is I think there needs to be another book called Deep Connection. Because the same way that these distractions in your environment, your presence, and your focus applies to these periods of deep work, the same thing applies to being with other people and truly listening. Even having your phone on the dinner table does those same things. There's the same anticipation of something coming up, something that's there, something to look at. And the other person feels your mind looking for that little hit of dopamine because you're not focused on being with the other person. So I'd say take, if there's anything about that you learned that you want to apply to your period of deep work, and any of these strategies when it comes to eliminating distraction and creating an environment for you to do your best work, create an environment to have your best connection when you sit down with those you love and new people that you want to connect with.

Tony: That's so good. I definitely double down on that and respect that 100%. I know that one last piece I'd add for me when it comes to what you just mentioned about the deep connections is be present with people. I mean, obviously it's the present professional, but If I'm in a one-on-one, face-to-face, a lot of times, I'm not gonna say all the time, but a lot of times I have my phone off. Of course, away, but sometimes off, depending on the environment and the setting. Because it's just rare to give someone your full attention these days. And I turn my phone off a lot. I turn my phone off throughout the day, and it's for periods of time. It's not, like, the entire day. I think my wife would be very upset if I did that. It's periods where I may have the time to myself, and I find myself, which many of us do, I'm sure, opening an app, scrolling, closing the app, and reopening it. And like, how did I, what did I do? How did I get back here? And sometimes you might just literally need to turn it off and then release control back to yourself.

John: All right, my friends, take control of your attention, take control of your energy, take control of your life. I hope you learn something here that you can apply to creating something that's going to make a difference for you and make a difference for everyone else and those within our world. All right, my friends, thank you so much for joining another episode of the present professional. We're grateful for you listener and contributing to our community. Please don't hesitate to connect at the present professional podcast.com and we'll see you next time.