John: You're listening to The Present Professional, where we explore the intersections of personal and professional development.

John: To change your experience of life and work with every episode.

Tony: So tune in, grab your notebook, and let's go. Let's go.

John: Welcome to another episode of The Present Professional. Today, we're here to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and how to bring that into your workplaces, groups, organizations, and most of all, to keep it in your awareness and in your mindset. So I'm going to let Tony kick us off, Director of Talent and Diversity.

Tony: I think you are hitting it on the head in terms of bringing it into your workplace and just kind of your mindset, because diversity is not a subject that needs to be put in the box, but it just needs to be more of your general awareness and how you see the world. It's important to keep it at the front of your mind, especially as we all continue to live in a very diverse world. So I think it's perfect timing to talk about a subject that is kind of starting to be forgotten. So I'll kick us off though with a little bit of a knowledge bank kind of review of what DEI is. And so if you've heard the term DEI, you may have heard of DEI-B, DEI-A or DEI, but you always hear the D, E and I in it. So the D stands for diversity and the E is for equity and the I is for inclusion. And those are the foundational pieces of what DEI is. We're going to cover that in more of a definition style here in a bit. And then I'm going to kind of go through some of the other foundational pieces of what what DEI brings along with it into your workplace and into your organizations and institutions. John, any thoughts? I mean, when you hear DEI, what kind of comes up for you or what's your experience been with it?

John: What comes up for me is it really being the success of organizations in the future. It's, you know, as things get more automated, more AI coming into, you know, coming into the picture, it's really going to be the quality of ideas that are able to come to the forefront in your organization. So for me, DEI is a non-negotiable for a company that wants to be successful in the future because the ability for you to create an environment to leverage diverse thought, diverse background that can connect to various different customers, different groups. And, you know, you provide the environment for all of their ideas and constructive feedback to come to the forefront from all different angles and backgrounds. Those are going to be the organizations that succeed because, you know, it's all about having those Not even just original, but even just speed to market type of ideas and challenges come to the forefront. Those are going to be the organizations that exist, the ones that succeed. So for me, it's not even just a mindset to create. a better world that we enjoy being a part of, but it's also, when it comes to the workplace, a necessary foundation for success moving forward, especially in this ever-growing, connected, and technologically advanced world. The human part of it is going to be found in those organizations that Hold the idea and you know it's a part of their core values and specifically on the inclusion part of it. I think the inclusion part is like diversity in action.

Tony: Yeah it's a it's a quote by verna myers who's a. a thought leader in the space. And she says that diversity is being invited to the party, but inclusion is being asked to dance. And I think what you just said kind of leans into that, which is more of the action piece, like having the inclusion where people's opinions matter, people's thoughts are heard. And, you know, people are invited not just to be at the table, but to actually have a nameplate at the table and people know who they are and what they stand for and then they have a microphone too. I was in class recently and we were talking about really talking about critical race theory, but we were talking about it in a way of just theory. And I had a classmate who is Native-born Hawaiian, and she was having a difficult time processing critical race theory because she looks at America and Hawaii. It's not America and Hawaii in her viewpoint and opinion. She really looks at Hawaii as an indigenous community or an indigenous island. And so when we were talking about the subject, she said, well, we don't have racism in Hawaii. I mean, she said racism is a made up term that has no effect in Hawaii. So I can't really use critical race theory in my theory bank. And I just thought that was mind blowing because I was like, wow, to hear that perspective from a quote unquote indigenous leader. You know, I thought that was a very interesting thing, you know, as we talk about DEI. So just understand from a global standpoint that DEI is not look it's not what we think it is so you really have to be mindful about talking about diversity because diversity in thought it's a different lens when you when you talk about diversity it's everybody has a stake in the game of diversity but it's not a We're not all looking at it from the same viewpoint or vantage point. So just keep in mind that because I know for me, I talk to people about diversity and it's really a very personal conversation because people bring their person to the conversation and everybody feels that they are right because it's your opinion of what diversity is. But really, It's, you know, it's a rainbow or it's like if you ever wear those glasses, I mean as a kid, those 3D glasses where you put the, you're watching a movie or something and you put the 3D glasses on and it's like all these colors and it just looks insane. Well, that's kind of, you know, how diversity is to a degree. You see it one way, then you put on the shades of diversity and now you see the full spectrum. So I'll give you a quick definition of diversity, which is That it allows you to understand that the visible and invisible differences, including race, ethnicity, gender, age, disability, sexual orientation, and more. You also have a chance with diversity to recognize the value of diverse perspectives, experiences, and backgrounds. in driving innovation and problem solving. So it's not just about race or gender or age or sexual orientation. But it's the full spectrum of those things coming together and creating the experiences that, again, to your point, John, drive innovation and create problem solving opportunities for groups and individuals and organizations.

John: Yeah, I would say that everyone Everyone does come with their own perspective on diversity, just because it's the same way about what diversity is, right? It's not even just the way that you look, the way that you choose to go about your life. It's the diversity of the human experience, diversity even when it comes to financial background. historical background. You mentioned gender, sexual orientation. It's just embracing the human experience is the way that I look at it. The thing about the human experience is when we talk into, which I'm sure we're going to get into about unconscious bias and how that survival part of our brain, was useful at times when you had to stick with a tribe. When you were defending, really defending and fighting for your life, fighting for survival, being able to stick with a tribe, whether it was look the same, feel the same, sound the same, was necessary for your survival. It's built into our primitive brain function. There's something about understanding that, you know, you have an inherent bias, you have an inherent drive to reach for things that are familiar. And now, you know, what we're doing is trying to rewire that consciously with the more evolved part of our brain. right that we've kind of talked about in other episodes before to when your frontal cortex can talk to you know closer to your brainstem and your especially your amygdala or where your fear response is so we talk about parts of the brain but when your executive part of the brain your you know more higher functioning part of your brain It comes with more resources. It actually takes more energy to use that conscious reasoning part of your brain, which is why you can see a lot of fights happening or things that weren't meant to be said when someone's hungry. They don't have the energy to leverage that part of the brain. So it's know that consciously, building the muscle to reach for something that's unfamiliar, to get to know someone with a very different background, to let down any guards that you may have built up just inherently from where you grew up, from who you grew up with. There's a lot of conditioning that happens, but it's your choice. If you want to start unlearning some of that and learning how to embrace the beauty of the differing human experiences. I say all that to say that this conversation is about bringing this into your consciousness. One, it's notice. What is the diversity of my friend group? Who have I not spoken to at the office? Who's been quiet in the meeting? It doesn't have to be. what they look like, what their background is, but it's, you know, bring the voice to the forefront. Reach for something that's a little unfamiliar and you'll create more diversity of your human experience, thereby creating more diversity throughout the room, throughout your life, throughout the organization.

Tony: And I think that diversity is almost, if we're looking at it from a foundational standpoint, diversity is your learning opportunity. You learn throughout the whole experience, but laying it all out of what what your experience are, what my experiences are. I think one of the biggest faults we have in our education system is that we really are only taught one history when really it's a blend of histories that we should learn because we live in a melting pot. So if I'm in a classroom and there's a full spectrum, there's black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Native Hawaiian, whichever races are in the room, we should have the privilege to learn about everybody's history. And that way, it levels the playing field of understanding. Because now not only do I understand you, but you understand you. Because sometimes we aren't taught our own history. So just that piece alone is like a bare bones foundational piece of it all, right? Some people are taught that. I don't know if they're taught that in school about other groups' histories, but I would love to teach my children or the future generations to come up to investigate other's histories. I think I've learned more when I've learned about the history of maybe a war, the implications of that, or if I learned a history of a country or a continent and it really just now I understand my own country better and not in like a negative way, but I understand the history. I understand what 1776 means in the full spectrum of you know, the earth. We just, you know… we had 4th of July not too long ago. And when you understand the global context of what was happening in the world around that time, it helps you understand what 2023 means. So when you are having these conversations, whether it's in the workplace or even if you share this episode with someone, like diversity is a very multifaceted subject. And the more we open our minds to what it could mean, Like you talk about the human experience, John, I think the more that we become more understanding of each other and just a better society. So the other piece of DEI is equity. It's my personal favorite, honestly, because you talk about inclusion being the action. Well, equity is the one that I feel gets looked over. I feel like equity is the one where we just say, DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And we never really talk about what equity actually means or what that could look like. So there's a visual of a kid at a baseball game, right? So he's at the baseball game and he's outside and he's looking at the game from the outfield, so to speak. And there he's at the game so he's there diversity but he can't see the game because there's a fence and so inclusion is hey let's uh let's build some blocks so he can see the game so now he's standing on these blocks and he can see the game he feels included Equity is where you take the fence down completely, and he's at the game, and there's no fence, there's no blocks, there's no any of that, because the histories that kept him from seeing the game just no longer exist. And that's kind of a concept or a visual of what equity kind of means. But to me, it just means that you go above and beyond to create an even playing field, even if it doesn't really make sense. Because I think we talk about equality. Equality is about balance. It's about it making sense. Right? Equality is more about measuring things out to make sure that everybody has an opportunity. Equity is saying everybody doesn't have the same opportunities because of historical marginalization. So now we're gonna speed up the process by doing things that don't really make sense, regardless of balance, because it's the right thing to do. That's how I view equity. And that's why it's in last place of the three, because it's really scary for government and organizations, institutions to go that way, because it causes a domino and a ripple effect. that the world seems to say they're not ready for, but I don't believe that. I think we're ready for it because we do a lot of other things, but I think that it's just something that it's the fight. It's the one that people have fought generations on. It's the one that people fight for in legislature. That's my little personal definition as well as kind of more of like a If I was to give an official one, it would say embracing the concept of equity focuses on fair opportunities and resources to individuals based on their unique needs, circumstances, and historical disadvantages. And this is a way where you can acknowledge and address systemic barriers that may hinder equal access to opportunities and outcomes. You build a wheelchair ramp because it makes sense. You don't build a wheelchair ramp to say, how many people come in here in wheelchairs?

John: Yeah, dropping that barrier to entry, literally. I think equity is a slippery slope when it comes into the process, when it comes into actually implementing things. Because on the other end, sometimes then you have things that become overly data-driven because Right now, a lot of inequity exists because a lot of things say moving up in the ranks are subject to the opinions of humans, which like we said, are innately bias. It's just straight up naturally the way that your brain has evolved and conditioning. Anything that is subject to human decision-making, there's going to be inefficiencies, inequity, and what's the word that I'm looking for? Irrationality. We think that we make rational decisions and So when I'm thinking equity, you know, then I start thinking about, you know, standardized testing, admissions testing, things that, you know, where all humans become numbers and you hear less of the story behind, you know, maybe why someone would be a good fit for this institution. Or that someone would be a good fit to manage people. And then I see folks trying to quantify things that are nearly impossible where you're trying to quantify things like emotional intelligence, like the way that folks are able to connect with people, to lead people, and we're just quantifying things more and more, which adds to more equity. taking the human out of that decision-making, but then at the same time, does that take away from the human experience or being able to really listen to the story and be able to select the right person based on what that feels like? I feel like There are pros and cons of removing human intuition from decision making. I think, in a way, our intuition is innately knowledgeable, yet sometimes it can be misguided when it's not. cultivated in the right way, but then, you know, to completely remove the intuition from decision-making, you know, you're leaving it up to AI. at that point.

Tony: Mm hmm. Yeah, I was just going to say something about AI, because I feel like if we're not careful about addressing some of the humanistic, equitable problems that we've had, we're going to not address them. And then we're going to look up and we're going to be fighting against AI. You know, we're going to be fighting for our human human rights against the machines. And they will be saying the same things that people have been saying for generations about equity and just like historical systemic problems that have been perpetuated, we'll be saying that about AI. We'll be saying, you know, it's not fair that the machines get the job. And it's like, you know, black people will be like, we've been saying that for like 100 years, you know. You know, seriously. And it's like sometimes you don't get it until it affects you. We're going to be saying the same things that people have been saying for generations. But we're all locking in as humans, you know, fighting against the machine maybe one day, but I'm still going to have my hand on my chin. Like, really? It took the machine for us to realize that we should come together and do what's right.

John: I mean, this could be an episode in itself is what is AI going to do to the DEI landscape. Also, a whole episode on this topic of the first time that the historically white grandfathered in type of white-collar positions are now the ones that are facing the challenge the most when it comes to AI. You're coming out of school and working, going to a bigger corporation into a data analytics role. I don't know how much longer that's going to be around. You know, I could see maybe there's one storyteller that, you know, kind of brings together all of the different AI answers about, you know, the data analytics and kind of reports it offline. But, you know, those are millions of jobs. And, you know, millions of historically white, white-collar jobs. So what's gonna happen when we start having that conversation of the machine, the machine took my job. Well, now things aren't fair. Yeah, okay. Now you feel it. Right now it's real because it's happening to me. So I think it brings a lot more people into the conversation. I think it's going to be a whole different landscape. Like I said at the beginning of the episode and my view of DEI is, it's going to be essential. Those organizations, those that succeed in the economy are going to have a personal brands, are going to leverage the backgrounds of their individuals, the backgrounds of their leaders. and, you know, create an environment where those ideas can come to the forefront. Because, you know, ultimately, that's what's going to set us apart from the machines, right, is our histories, our understandings, the human connection, and the diversity of our experiences. You know, that's what, you know, they can pull from memories, they can't necessarily pull from feelings, from the experience of things. This is why when we get into the service of things and the brands, the brands that are going to elicit more of that human emotion, that connection, that following. I don't know. I think that's something around where AIs and not going to be able to touch, at least for now. I think when it comes down to that emotional factor, that the emotional intelligence of an AI is not going to be quite there for a long time. So I think that's something we really need to lean into and something that helps put inclusion into action and bring it into your forefront.

Tony: Mm-hmm. You know, Dwight, that's a good point. And just thinking about what you said, Empathy is a huge part of DEI that is not really talked about enough. We talk about emotional intelligence and self-awareness, but that's important. It's definitely important for you to be self-aware of the whole movement and everything. Empathy allows you to feel what other people are feeling. And of course, like you said, a machine can't do that no matter what you feel or think. That's just kind of impossible. But for us as humans, that's a big part of it. And I think if there was more empathy just naturally in the world, then DEI wouldn't even exist because we would feel how others feel. We would see how others see. We would take a walk in their shoes, either emotionally or with our ear by listening. I think that's important to bring up because it's a huge part of if the folks who were in certain power positions or if you are in a power position in your company or board of directors or what have you, then you have to use your empathy card when you talk about DEI because there's really no other way to understand it. It's just the empathy of thought, right? The empathy to even think about how do you help one part of society is important. But inclusion. So as I talked about, inclusion is when you're actually dancing at that party. But the definition or the kind of more formal way to look at it is that inclusion goes beyond diversity and it involves creating a culture. a culture where everyone feels valued, respected, and empowered to contribute fully. And I think about times where I've been included, especially earlier on in my career, that is when I think the light bulb clicked for other people. So when I was included, in more professional settings, that's when I feel like other people were able to understand that, oh, like I can ask other people their opinion and they have great things to say, too. It's like, yeah, you know, I went to college, too. You know, it's like I got I got a degree, too. You know, I want to use it, too. So and I think that that's important when you're in the workplace to You know, just like John said in the opening, I think, ask that person who hasn't said anything, hey, what do you think about this, Mark? Hey, what do you think about this, Kiera? And let them say what they have to say and listen. listen and understand, even ask, even reflect, like after they finish, it's like, oh, okay, well, I think I heard you say this. Is that right? And let them fully unpack it. Because sometimes when you ask, and it happens to me today, when you ask people's opinion and you really didn't fully understand because maybe they said it differently than you're used to hearing, don't just dismiss it and say okay you know thanks for your opinion and let's move back on to the main subject no have a dialogue even if it takes you a little off the road a bit because as a leader or as a present professional, you should be able to drive back onto the road. But get full understanding of what they're saying. And that's full inclusion, right? Because then they feel fully valued and they feel truly heard. People can feel when you just dismiss them after they say something. There's nothing worse than when I see people open up. And then I see a leader or I see someone just kind of like shut it down or they say, oh, OK, cool. And they just move on. It's like you shouldn't even ask. But yeah, that's inclusion, you know, and it's super important.

John: I mean, I think you really hit the nail on the head when it comes to empathy. I mean, empathy is, you know, being able to see, see others, understand them. And, you know, you don't have to understand everything and empathy isn't about trying to fix someone or isn't trying isn't about even helping them fix themselves it's just helping someone understand how they feel and you know helping yourself understand how others feel and you know then there's compassion Compassion is empathy in action. So it's actually taking an action or doing something in order to help that person get to a balanced place when it comes to feelings. or get to a place when it comes to equity. Compassion is the thing that when we act on an act of creating justice, they're so tied together, but empathy is the space before action. It's the space to understand, you know, and then you take the action to alleviate what's happening with the other person. And that's compassion. So then, you know, to cultivate this empathy muscle, There's a whole episode that we can do on that as well because that's something that it comes naturally to some and not so naturally to others, especially in Western culture. We talked about being raised and being exposed to other cultures, other histories, other religions. There's something to be said about the school of thought that's brought up your culture where you're at. The United States was formed on pretty much all Western philosophy and a huge opening in my perspective, in my mind, was learning Eastern philosophy and learning about Eastern ways of thought. It completely changed my perspective and opened up a new way to look at the world. When it comes back to empathy and understanding, Western thought, especially here in the United States, it's about winning. It's about having the answer. That's built into our education system, it's built into the competition within the economy. Having the answer is, kind of builds you up on the pedestal. It gets you the results. But sometimes listening and taking the time, like you mentioned, to really understand someone, that's the real goal. That's when you provide the environment to let these ideas come to the forefront is, like you mentioned, listening to understand. And what does that really look like for people? I think there's a whole episode on teaching those elements of empathy and listening, and we can circle back to that. But how are folks really going to put that in action? you know, learn a little bit more about what it means to develop empathy skills.

Tony: Absolutely. I think the leaders that are most culturally competent in this next generation are the ones that are going to win and they're going to really lead effectively. I think the leaders that truly understand Generation Z are the ones that are going to win and lead effectively. You can't do things the way that they used to be done and expect to get modern or new or fresh results, right? The leaders and the CEOs that truly get it when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion and truly try to learn and not just do these crazy little one-off things to try to prove that they are diverse or they have diversity mindsets. It's not… It's not that. It's really not. And folks can see that and they can sense that and they can feel when you really are not genuine. But when you really have the passion or compassion for others and you can really use your seat of authority to inspire or to make change when the doors are closed and you're in the meeting and a subject comes up that you know is has implications or processes that are going to affect other people, and you step up, that's when it's truly happening for you. Because it may not be the cool thing to do. It may not be the the normal thing to do. And when you have a brand of now people know that this person is they're going to fight for others. It makes waves like people know that like that's a great brand to have, like especially as a leader. People see you as someone that's going to stand up for the little people as well as really be able to do what's right in the rooms when you have to make tough decisions to. I think that's where people are going to want to work. They're going to want to work for leaders who do that and get that and are multifaceted like that.

John: I agree. I agree. And I think that, you know, starting with this community here is a great place to be. So I think that, you know, becoming a present professional, bringing a lot of this into your awareness, If you're taking the time to listen through these episodes and take into your work and your life what you get out of these conversations, you're already on your way to taking the first step in creating a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive environment. So I just want to acknowledge each and every one of you listeners for being with us through to this point. And know that each time you take this moment out of your day to learn something, to see life from a different perspective, to hear different perspectives, you are broadening your experience and your background to be able to connect with more people. and utilize these skills. So I want to thank each and every one of you for being listeners. Please rate us and review us anywhere that you're listening to our podcast and connect with us at the presentprofessionalpodcast.com. Thank you guys so much for being listeners and take care.